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There are currently 128 users playing Freelancer on 40 servers.
February. 24, 2018
The Starport Forum Index > All Posts (Schmackbolzen)

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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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Thanks eigos, that kind feedback is really helpful. This way I know I have the same perception as others, because I think exactly the same.

Yeah, I plan to make it available for everyone once it is stable. I want to test it in our mod first because then I can get better error reports from our old playerbase (at least that is what I hope ^^) and react to it with automatic updates. I think the effort for it pays off most if everyone can use it in the end. Also it might extend the life of FL a bit longer.

Also I might be German, but I am also a perfectionist so that probably goes hand in hand

As for the Nomads I prefer a more crystalline look, but I did not start working on them, yet. I have some ideas (as always ), though.

@SWAT_OP-R8R: Images are difficult to interpret, so I assume you like it. Although I don't know what exactly you find good about it

Posted on: 1/30 19:48
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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Hehe it's better, but still not gone. Needed some distraction.

Since it is more of a stylistic choice I am interested whether people like the different metallic look (if they notice at all). I plan to make a video where I change the parameters via GUI so one can see the impact of all the different ones (which still don't cover all the cases). Also automatic exposure control is still missing so that would be an additional factor for the visuals later on. If I add bloom this will also impact how it looks.

Posted on: 1/30 11:01
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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So here are two videos of the current state after some parameter tuning:
http://www.flnu.net/downloads/fl2901_2.mp4
http://www.flnu.net/downloads/fl2901_3.mp4

Most of the bugs are (currently) gone and only small ones are left. Fullscreen is working (although I needed a workaround and will have to revise that later).

What's left are some tools I need to write and of course polishing. After that I need to decide if I add some more stuff or directly release a first version for testing (which will be in our mod).

Posted on: 1/30 1:13

Edited by Schmackbolzen on 2018/1/30 1:23:22
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Re: AMD Card Users May SUFFER No More! (LowRes Texture Fix!)
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What graphics card do you have? I tested it with a RX480 and Skotty with his 270x back then and it worked for both. Can you upload your modified exe so that I can have a look?

Posted on: 1/21 22:24
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Re: AMD Card Users May SUFFER No More! (LowRes Texture Fix!)
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I had this on my new AMD card and did some reverse engineering a while ago. You can find the offset to change at https://the-starport.net/modules/media ... t_Breaking_101#Visibility at the last entry called "Fix bug with low resolution textures on some systems (sets maximum to 8192 instead of 128) "

I also wrote about it somewhere, but forgot where it was ^^

Posted on: 1/21 21:56
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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I think there is a misunderstanding here. What my wrapper is doing is exactly using normal and height maps (although I am not using dxt5_nm, but rather ati2n for normal maps and ati1n for the height maps, which gives you nearly lossless compression). So we all agree that it is needed, but you don't need dxt5 for it (the nm format just uses the alpha channel to get less compression artefacts in the normal maps). If you go back a few pages you'll find screens and videos of my wrapper in case you missed it. They are done with Freelancer and it uses normal and parallax mapping thanks to shaders (i currently even use some optional dx10 stuff for the antialiased post processing).

The problem now is to generate all the height and normal maps including high res textures which at best don't have any height baked in them like FL textures have. Even if your method e.g. allows automatic height map creation or eases it up a lot this would help out quite a bit. And don't get me started on the old low poly models

Posted on: 1/21 14:48
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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Yes, you can of course sharpen the image and apply other filters, but that is for later when am tired of testing networks The goal is a good starting point.

Posted on: 1/21 10:30
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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It's not so easy. The DXT compression introduces a lot of artefacts, so if you upscale it without them and compress it with a better compressor or even better into a different format, you will have won a lot. Also I don't have to do much since basically the networks are training while I am working on different stuff

Also unless someone is willing to redo them we don't have an alternative. I think Freestalker is currently trying, but who knows how many he can afford to rework. The models also have to be reworked, but no one is doing that currently I think.

Edit:
Here is an example to show what the networks are doing:
Vanilla upscaled (Lanzos3):
Open in new window

DXT NN filtered, antialiasing (hard edges), NN upscaled, Lanzos3 Upscaled:
Open in new window

Maybe this helps you understand why I am doing this

Posted on: 1/20 14:48

Edited by Schmackbolzen on 2018/1/20 14:55:26
Edited by Schmackbolzen on 2018/1/20 14:56:03
Edited by Schmackbolzen on 2018/1/20 15:18:58
Edited by Schmackbolzen on 2018/1/20 15:19:44
Edited by Schmackbolzen on 2018/1/20 15:31:08
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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I am still trying different network configurations and am looking for a way to get less aliasing. The results are already somewhat better, but I am not satisfied yet.

Here are results from a completely different network:

Original:
Open in new window
Upscaled:
Open in new window

Upscaled:
Open in new window

Upscaled:
Open in new window

Upscaled:
Open in new window

I did not apply any further filtering besides upscaling again. As you can see, hard edges can be quite aliased. I might have to filter the input with antialiasing without making it to blurry.

Posted on: 1/20 10:00
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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I am already using 4x upscaled textures in the videos and that did make a lot of difference (some of this is because of the DDS compression). I hope there will another jump with the new ones. We will see. The current ones I use are quite good, though.

I am still training the networks and experimenting with different layers so the results might change (like the colors still do during training). I think that is was SWAT_OP-R8R noticed.

Here are some from yesterday (rheinland) which Freestalker wanted. I only applied antialiasing afterwards (which helps a lot).

Also Freestalker thanks for the kind words

Original:
Open in new window
Upscaled:
Open in new window

Original:
Open in new window
Upscaled:
Open in new window

Original:
Open in new window
Upscaled:
Open in new window

Posted on: 1/17 20:45
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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Quote:

FriendlyFire wrote:
We should probably move this discussion to another thread if we want to keep going though.


Yeah it would be nice if you could continue this discussion in another topic and maybe move your replies from here into the new one as they are quite offtopic

Freestalker wanted some replies on how you like his textures so maybe we should continue there. I personally miss a better distinction between the different heights. It will look better ingame due to self shadowing, but still.

I have been experimenting with neural networks and came up with an approach which first removes the dds compression artefacts and then uses a different trained network to upscale them. After that I plan use normal algorithms for further filtering and upscaling (currently it's only a very good upscaling algorithm afterwards). The results look more than promising to say the least. Here are a few examples (click on them for full size):
Original Vanilla:
Open in new window
Upscaled:
Open in new window

Original:
Open in new window
Upscaled:
Open in new window

Original:
Open in new window
Upscaled:
Open in new window

What do you guys think? Want more examples?

Posted on: 1/15 22:21
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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I have skipped them and worked on my master thesis instead since it takes days of calculations to test all the parameters for the evaluation and thus needed to finish the code for every test I need to do as soon as possible. It is looking good right now, but you never know what is coming next

Btw. you don't need to ask all the time. If I don't post I did not make enough progress (as I wrote before). I need to find the remaining bugs (e.g. fullscreen does not work correctly) and you never know how much time that will cost. I have done some small things (like using much better dds compression for the textures), but you won't see that in a video.

Posted on: 1/9 11:07
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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It highly depends on the model (vertices and texture coordinates). Unfortunately FL has a lot which don't go well with it

Posted on: 12/12 18:31
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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You can read about that in the linked presentation. Also I only tested the UTF version. Wodka once wrote to me that you don't use that. As far as I remember there also was problem with references in the vector maths and thus wrong results. But since you don't use it anyway I never committed it.

Posted on: 12/11 23:24
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Re: OpenGL Rendering
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Sry, I am again very busy due to university and my student job.

@Wodka: Yes, this implementation produces wrong TBN data. I have modified it locally and also added code so that new vertices can be inserted. Currently I recalculate all normals and duplicate vertices in case the angle between the normals is too large. But this is only a stopgap measure until I can convert the code I linked above, since there are still case where the TBN data is wrong. Plus everything looks very edged right now since the original normals were smoothed a lot. Maybe I also should have a look at your MAX plugin in case you have used a better algorithm there.

I hope that I can get a public beta test running after I had some time off during the upcoming holidays, but no promises. It will only work on our New Universe server so you would have to check out our mod. I'll probably use the current ugly shadow implementation, but at least you could test it out. We will see...

Posted on: 12/11 20:36
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