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May. 29, 2020

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SCIENCE
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Quote:
A pair of German physicists claim to have broken the speed of light - an achievement that would undermine our entire understanding of space and time.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/sc ... roken-speed-of-light.html

It's not 'confirmed' yet by the greater scientific community, but it's surely a big thing.

What do you think this means, and what are your opinions on it's validity?

Posted on: 2011/9/23 16:46
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Re: SCIENCE
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Awesome!! It proof that hyperspace existe!! But Space Distortion is way better, no time problems! But if you can go more than 300'000'000 m/s? It could be possible to have no time differences?? Between the object who have light speed and normal objects??

Posted on: 2011/9/23 18:02
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Re: SCIENCE
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Haha, take that, Einstein!

Posted on: 2011/9/23 18:30
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Re: SCIENCE
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Quote:

Freestalker.fr wrote:
Awesome!! It proof that hyperspace existe!! But Space Distortion is way better, no time problems! But if you can go more than 300'000'000 m/s? It could be possible to have no time differences?? Between the object who have light speed and normal objects??

The scientist I've seen/read say, that *if* the conclusion turns out to be true (I mean: if it's not a fault in setup or measurement), it would mean that the neutrinos involved, travelled backwards in time. Whatever that means. o, time dilation is still expected to remain an integral part of physics.

Btw Bad Astronomer Phil Plait warns us to be cautious to get overexcited:

Faster-than-light travel discovered? Slow down, folks

Posted on: 2011/9/23 18:35
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Re: SCIENCE
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Jeez... But if you return to the "past" with that? Doesn't it reverse the slow down effect?? I think yes, but I can't explain it clearly.

Posted on: 2011/9/23 20:07
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Re: SCIENCE
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I'll take all of this with a pinch of salt about a ton heavy. Two if you're really excited.

The probability of going faster than the speed of light being possible are close to nil. There are far more chances of a measurement issue than of a fundamental change in the laws of physics.

Posted on: 2011/9/24 4:35
"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
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Re: SCIENCE
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this is strange. we are saying, that the speed of light is the highes reachable speed for any sort of energy and only energy in form of light is actually able to reach this speed. we tried making light move faster (like from a moving train etc, you got the idea), it didn't work, or at least we couldn't measure if it did. i don't see the proof of that motion with FTL speed is impossible, and don't come around with someone said that because of [the point].
someone also said the earth is obviously (!) flat since you can't see beyond the horizon. this explanation is even logical, still that doesn't make the fact true.

second, there is that paradoxon: on the one hand, we consider velocity as a relative value. velocities can add and subtract each other when combined. a car on the road does move with its speed and additionally with the speed of earth which again moves with its own speed and the speed of the sun, which again moves with the speed of our galaxy and its own, and still it is not cleared, whether our actual whole universe is moving in empty space or not. on the other hand, modern science is claiming, that the speed of light is absoulte, not reachable, not exceedable and not changable with kinetic forces, yet different in different densities of the medium light is crossing, just as the direction is.

however, i agree with FF here, it is more likely a measurement issue, but not because of our primitive ways to actually understand how god's infinite intelligence designed our complex universe, but just because we have to doubt those german scientists found anything, that would be affectible by force that well, that it wouldn't need investion of energy in an amount they couldn't even afford.

Posted on: 2011/9/24 7:33
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Re: SCIENCE
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Quote:

FriendlyFire wrote:
I'll take all of this with a pinch of salt about a ton heavy. Two if you're really excited.

The probability of going faster than the speed of light being possible are close to nil. There are far more chances of a measurement issue than of a fundamental change in the laws of physics.

Me too. And, more important, so do the scientists. There was a supernova some years ago, and both the photons (the light) and neutrinos reached the earth at the predicted time. So, if neutrinos were faster, that couldn't have happened.

Btw the scientists did repeat their measurement many times (around 1500 times, I heard) eacht time with the same result. Now, the next thing they gotta cancel out is a setup error, so that's why other research teams at other locations will be working on it.


Posted on: 2011/9/24 8:50
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Re: SCIENCE
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Do they have some sort of special neutrinos or why should they all of a sudden behave in a different way?

Posted on: 2011/9/24 8:54
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Re: SCIENCE
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Interesting:

Quote:
Actually, neutrinos do arrive before photons from a supernova. The reason for this is that neutrinos are created in core collapse, which then escape through the rest of the star because of their incredibly low interaction with matter. It takes some time (hours or days) for the photons to get out of the stellar envelope because they interact with matter.

There's actually a program called the Supernova Early-Warning System (or SNEWS) that is trying to detect a supernova using neutrinos, then send out alerts so that photon-based telescopes can watch for the supernova.


But still:

http://io9.com/5843112/faster-than-light-neutrinos-not-so-fast


Posted on: 2011/9/24 9:14
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Re: SCIENCE
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cool if it is validated, the far reaching consequences are staggering.

however, i will take a pinch of salt with my FTL drive thanks. And wait and see if it is validated or debunked.

Posted on: 2011/9/24 13:41
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Re: SCIENCE
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Quote:

w0dk4 wrote:
Interesting:

Quote:
Actually, neutrinos do arrive before photons from a supernova. The reason for this is that neutrinos are created in core collapse, which then escape through the rest of the star because of their incredibly low interaction with matter. It takes some time (hours or days) for the photons to get out of the stellar envelope because they interact with matter.

There's actually a program called the Supernova Early-Warning System (or SNEWS) that is trying to detect a supernova using neutrinos, then send out alerts so that photon-based telescopes can watch for the supernova.



True, but in this case the lag of photons can be explained because they have to struggle their way thru matter, were the neutrinos can just freefly (see the link to Phil Plait's article). So, this is another phenomenon than what is going on in the recent discovery, with which is incompatible (meaning: the lag between photons and neutrinos in the supernova can be 'simply' explained by the known laws of physics).

Posted on: 2011/9/24 14:56
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Re: SCIENCE
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Plus, the delay seen here would mean neutrinos would arrive years before the photons on many supernovae. This is evidently not the case.

@Gisteron: If you take the actual laws, you'll see that adding velocities is in fact incorrect. You need to add velocities through a Lorentz transformation, which behaves almost exactly as if you were adding velocities for small values compared to c, but not at all for large values.

Posted on: 2011/9/24 15:28
"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
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Re: SCIENCE
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Another question:

Will light faster than light?

Supposition:
We have a train on a straight track, and two high power flash lamps, One mounted and powered on the head of train, Other one fixed at start line of track and directing the end of track.

Then, set the train running and lamps started flashing. and we stand in the end line of the track.

Now, will the light on the train faster than the fixed one to enter our eye? Or keep same speed?

Posted on: 2011/9/24 15:39
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Re: SCIENCE
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Light goes at c in a vacuum. The only thing that affects light's speed is the medium in which it propagates.

Posted on: 2011/9/24 15:59
"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
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