Freelancer Community Network
Reminder: Internet Explorer 6 or below are NOT supported.
HomeHome
ForumForum
WikiWiki
DownloadsDownloads
ForgeForge
Multiplayer Connection Tutorial
Collapse/Expand Random Image
Collapse/Expand Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Collapse/Expand Chat
Collapse/Expand Who's Online
34 user(s) are online (13 user(s) are browsing Forum)

Members: 0
Guests: 34

more...
Collapse/Expand Donations
Monthly costs: -30€
Income (ads): +5€
Donations (last month): +0€

Current balance: 60€
(last updated 03/2020)

Please make a donation if you want to help keeping The-Starport online:

Bitcoin address:
Thanks!
Collapse/Expand Links
Collapse/Expand Advertisement
There are currently 52 users playing Freelancer on 43 servers.
May. 27, 2020

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



 Bottom   Previous Topic   Next Topic  Register To Post

« 1 ... 3 4 5 (6) 7 »


Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/6/16 20:41
Group:
Registered Users
FLServer Admins
Trusted Speciality Developers
Posts: 312
Offline
Green power plants are relative non-green - either they need utterly big areas or they soil the landscape. Sure positive its a regenerative energy source and mostly we don't waste resources of our planet. But there are also disadvantages if you ask me.
Nuclear power has its disadvantages - we all can recon that now on the Fukushima catastrophe. But i tend to believe the reaction against nuclear power is a bit tooo overreacted. Driving by car has as well its risks, we pollute the air. Driving by plane even more.

What should be done to evaluate all pros and cons is firstly to write them down. Weight them and consider the consequences. Every energy production may it be green or non-green has its risks as well as disadvantages. It must be weighted and evaluated to what extent they can or should be used...

Posted on: 2011/3/31 19:11
Open in new window
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/2/22 18:35
Group:
Registered Users
Senior Members
Posts: 709
Offline
It's not because it's "not cool" as you put it. It's because wind powerplants generate 2MW each at most. Compare that to an almost 40 year old reactor over at Fukushima generating 750MW...

I know Norway runs on water powerplants, they generate 60% of our powerusage and I live here. Each of them generate 350MW at most, but there's not enough waterfalls to supply whole Norway with them. 20% of our powerusage comes from fissionplants "imported" from the European network.

The Fukushima reactors were not upgraded in 15 years, and at that point we did not have the safe reactor designs we have today. Fissionpower is a a fully plausible way to go with our current safer designs. Most our fissionplants have not been upgraded in a long while and can be thought of as unsafe.

Fusion is even more dangerous, if one of them were to fail controlling the fusionprocess the amount of heat would be insane, and it would do much more damage than any fissionplant can possibly do today.

Don't bring up solar powerplants. Their maintenance costs are way too high, the cells can't use more than 20% of the energy, theoretical max of 30%...

Oil based solar powerplants are not "green-power", as the oil has to come from somewhere, and extracting that oil is not a green process.

Posted on: 2011/3/31 21:55
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/5/15 21:52
From Germany
Group:
Registered Users
$$$ Supporters $$$
Senior Members
Posts: 1607
Offline
WEll...I believe even if their are the safest requirements and security checks for nuclear power plants there is always a risk plus - just because someone, even if the government dictates it, is setting up standards, it doesn't mean that they will be adhered. You can't control the responsible persons in the nuclear business. Take fukushima as an example, the powerplants didn't fulfill the standards from what I do know. And you have to expect that this will also happen in the future for sure.

Posted on: 2011/3/31 21:56
Open in new window
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/2/22 18:35
Group:
Registered Users
Senior Members
Posts: 709
Offline
What about the literally tens of coal powerplants that went on fire the last 50 years? They're not dangerous? The fires from those can be impossible to stop for a very long time, and by that time it may have killed much more people than a fissionplant can kill in the same timespan if the fissionplant fails.

Not only do coal powerplants pollute the air a lot even with filtering, but they pollute the air to what probably will be toxic for human beings if they go on fire or something.

Geothermic powerplants is a genious idea, the only problem about them is that they literally destroy every geyser out there.

EDIT: I feel like pointing out that in a liberal society you can't trust fission or fusion to anyone running such a powerplant. Such powerplants require some extent of governmental control, for example forcing the corporation to shut down the plant if they do not upgrade when they are "ordered" to.

EDIT2: In fact, scratch that, all powerplants require some extent of governmental control. There's no safe powerplant tech out there, not even wind can be considered safe.

Posted on: 2011/3/31 22:02
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/6/16 20:41
Group:
Registered Users
FLServer Admins
Trusted Speciality Developers
Posts: 312
Offline
Does this mean we have to cut off nuclear power for ever - because there is a risk that might happen?

In such cases i would ask myself - would you under such considerations do any step inside a plane and have a thousands of kilometers travel? Isnt there the risk to die too? I could name many more examples that you do each day - that have their risk as well.

Imo we all can talk that nuclear power is bad due to its risks and the radiation (that we have to bear thousands of years any further). We face several risks each that where we are not aware that much of any bad results. Its often kinda overreacted and discussed in affect. What are always bad conditions to constructive solve any problems.

(PS: I do not like the nuclear waste and the imagination something like Fukushima happening again anywhere on the world - but we should not act in a hurry. Lets calm down and weight each pro and cons with its connected financial aspects and everything that must be considered. And not only rely on the fact that nuclear power plant are not safe (they never will be).

Posted on: 2011/3/31 22:44
Open in new window
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/9/28 21:13
From Wales
Group:
Registered Users
Senior Members
Posts: 925
Offline
Perhaps we should start building powerplants filled with bicycles driving dynamos, now that would create some jobs!

Posted on: 2011/3/31 22:49
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Starport Admin
Joined:
2009/2/21 21:42
Group:
Webmasters
Registered Users
Posts: 3520
Offline
The irony is that the anti-nuclear proponents are shooting themselves in the foot.

Wait, what?

Well think about it for a second. Your electricity doesn't come from magic. The only thing your protestation does is stop the construction of new plants. The old plants will keep running because they cost millions to safely dismantle and would not easily be replaced by another powerplant of the same capacity. Solar and wind are just a pipe dream, they cannot sustain baseload power generation. Only hydro, fossil and nuclear can. Hydro's nice if you have the space and the money and don't care too much about destroying the environment around the dam, but all those conditions are rather limiting. Fossil I think we can all agree is not the way to go; between pollution, scarcer resources and risks associated, they easily kill more people than all other sources combined.

So that leaves nuclear, but the thing is, yes, the plants we have right now are bad. You shouldn't be basing yourself off designs from half a decade ago when thinking about nuclear! Do we still measure car security by what a 1950s American car had?

Modern nuclear designs, as I've repeated countless times, are passively safe, recycle burnt fuel to extract about 99% of fissile material and produce so little waste it's not even funny. You couldn't notice the waste if you weren't looking for it.

We shouldn't be discarding a technology based off the batshit insane USSR experiment that was Chernobyl or how a 40 year old plant didn't fully resist a 9.0 earthquake followed by a 10m tsunami. Well dang, how surprising!

Posted on: 2011/4/1 0:56
"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
-Peggy Noonan
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/6/2 10:17
Group:
Registered Users
$$$ Supporters $$$
Senior Members
Posts: 1847
Offline
The problem is not the % likelihood of a nuke power station accident, but the number of people that can be wiped out and the number of more millions who will be affected by radiation from severe burns to nausea for the rest of their lives.

Yesterday the British media told us that above-normal radiation has been detected in this country and it originated from Fukushima. Is this just scare mongering, since there are so many miles between us, or has the radiation been also detected in Russia, China, Asia and the rest of Europe too, which are between us and Japan? If yes, then the range of the problem is so great that it may threaten all of the world. And the Japs can't get close enough for long enough to plug the hole, it is killing their people who are trying to fix the problem!

Fukushima is not over yet.

And my suspicion is that all of the tremors and quakes and natural disasters that we are seeing around the world are leading up to a really big shift or jerk of the continental plates which will threaten all of us. And there is nothing we can do about it.

Maybe this old world has had enough of the human race. We need to look for the seven-headed monster that will destroy mankind - Fukushima may well be the first head.

Posted on: 2011/4/1 3:09
"C" for "Caterpillar"... "Cool"... "Cheesey"!
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Starport Admin
Joined:
2009/2/21 21:42
Group:
Webmasters
Registered Users
Posts: 3520
Offline
Severe burns? Probably just those two who already got that. Rest will get on perfectly fine.

I think you're not really understanding how this thing works. You can't get burned from phantom magical particles or something. You get burned by something exceedingly energetic, like err fire. Not by small particles in the air.

There is absolutely nothing to fear about this outside of Japan. I hope you realize the magnitudes involved here. "Higher than normal" means what, 10-100x? That's still many orders of magnitude below any possible danger to humans. Because of the nuclear arms race, we have developed exceedingly sensitive detectors for this kind of stuff.

If one year, 5 people get killed by lightning and the next year, 10 people do, that's "higher than normal". Doesn't mean everybody will get toasted by lightning overnight, now does it?

Now please, stop with the dramatic "WE'RE ALL IN DANGER" lines, everyone. This is grave... for the immediate area next to the plant. If things get worse, it could be bad for the entire province. But it will not affect anything more than Japan in any meaningful way. Eating a banana everyday will get you more radiation than that.

Posted on: 2011/4/1 4:33
"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
-Peggy Noonan
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/2/22 18:35
Group:
Registered Users
Senior Members
Posts: 709
Offline
FF is right, even about the banana-thing actually...

Posted on: 2011/4/1 8:16
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Starport Admin
Joined:
2008/6/24 16:40
From http://www.freeworlds-tow.net/dev
Group:
Registered Users
Starport Admin
$$$ Supporters $$$
Posts: 1123
Offline
Speaking on purely medical terms here, since I just finished my MD, the severe burns that people who have received excess amounts of radiation are extremely similar to the ones that people get after radiation treatment, except are more systemic. The burns occur because radiation causes death to quickly growing cells; ones in your skin, GI tract and bone marrow. This causes the upper layers of the skin layers/GI layers to slough off causing the "burn appearance". In terms of your GI tract, because the upper layers of tissue are critical for absorbing nutrients, not having them there causes certain chemicals to cause the body to have nausea, GI upset and diarrhea.

For the majority of people, they will be fine. Most of the leaked radioactive content is I 131 which has a half-life of approx 8 days. In a few months the radioactive content will be negligible. There definitely will be an increase risk of cancer amongst the population closest to the nuclear plant but no where near the levels we saw in Chernobyl.

The real concern comes from release of plutonium which has a half-life over over 40 years and could cause permanent effects to the Japanese food chain. But, they haven't detected this in any great extent.

As for people outside of the country, you have nothing at all to be concerned about. And this scare mongering with radiation leaks is a bit absurd...

Posted on: 2011/4/1 11:44
Open in new window
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/2/22 18:35
Group:
Registered Users
Senior Members
Posts: 709
Offline
Actually they found a little bit of plutonium right outside reactors, and if I remember correctly Pu-239 has a half-life of several thousand years (we're talking somewhere around 24k years), which is what they end up with after running U-238 through the reactors.

Pu-239 is highly radioactive and IMO they should shut the plant down and bombard the thing with cement, the reactors are destroyed now anyways.

The rest of the world is not threatened by this, but Japan is.

Posted on: 2011/4/1 19:28
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/8/30 8:36
From Bay Area, CA, USA
Group:
Registered Users
Senior Members
Posts: 379
Offline
They are shutting them down. That's the thing.

CLICK ME

They did the obvious thing. They tried their best to bring them under control, cause reactors are sort of an expensive thing to lose. When it became clear that they could not, they made the decision to strike reactors 1-4. Reactors 5 and 6 are still up in the air as of that news article, which was a few days ago. These are professionals here.

Posted on: 2011/4/1 19:33
Top
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/2/22 18:35
Group:
Registered Users
Senior Members
Posts: 709
Offline
I don't recall anyone ever saying they are not professional, neither do I recall anyone saying reactors are cheap?

Might've misunderstood what you meant.

Posted on: 2011/4/1 20:20
Top
Anonymous
Re: At MOHANADHASSAN....
Anonymous-Anonymous
one thing:
d(-_-)b

Posted on: 2011/4/1 21:42
Top
« 1 ... 3 4 5 (6) 7 »