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November. 25, 2017

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fixed guns on fighters
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fixed guns on fighters.

I'd like to get opinions on this topic, I'm sure it's been done before but I can't find too much in the archives. it seems elsewhere when discussed regarding flight/space sims a topic that splits opinion.

Should fixed guns be a feature in space sims or, did DA get it right with FL, and the mouse based play with the turret type fighter guns in vanilla?

I'd also potentially like some advice from anyone who may haved toyed around with this in the past.

Ok, so I've been experimenting with fixed guns. Just to clarify, by this I mean not turrets. Straight forward fire the way you're facing guns/cannons whatever.

I've got them aligned and firing for the most part into the centre of the screen. It seems FLs engine can't handle this so well, the targetting system doesn't acknowledge the fact the guns are fixed.

So I guess I could modify the fighter cockpits to include a target recticle in the centre of the screen, to accomodate that. Unless anyone has other suggestions?

Obviously we can remove parts of the targetting system already ready, what about that little red cross?

Finally and I'm sure I'm missing something obvious here, my guns and missiles don't want to stay still, take the ku_recognizer_launcher and ge_shredder_shotgun (as well as most of the others) they're still rotating on the Y-axis despite several attempts looking at fixed HPs, changing various Rotation values in the CMP using both hardCMP and the UTF editor.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has implemented or tried to implement fixed guns in mods abd how they got on...

Cheers,
Rik

Posted on: 2011/7/10 12:07
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
Anonymous-Anonymous
I've been using them for years like that. Same problem as you though with weps moving on the Y axis, no matter what i try to fix this they still keeping moving

Posted on: 2011/7/10 12:50
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think that's because of the fact that vanilla weapon models themselves have a HpConnect that allows for rotation by default. So even if you give your ship a static Hp, the gun would still be able to rotate because of its own HpConnect.

See image from HardCMP:

Open in new window

Maybe you have already look into this, but it might be worthwhile to change that Hp.
I am foreseeing a couple of issues though if you would make the HpConnect on the weapon model itself static. I'm not sure whether FL's targeting system would still direct the gunfire to the target if the gun would be static, and whether or not this might cause for problems with your game.
I have never looked into it well enough.

Posted on: 2011/7/10 14:14
"Never argue with an idiot. You will have to lower yourself to their level and they will beat you with experience"
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Honestly, I love the moving guns in FL.
Perhaps they don't make a lot of sense realism wise, but it makes the game much more accessible to players.

Posted on: 2011/7/10 15:04
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Not realistic! A human who fly a certain class of helicopter can move his gun at the same time of his head, so in FL that's realistic. And do you know the NeuralNet? That is a "little" device implemented in the head, like its name implies. So the NeuralNet can help to move your weapons in all directions. And do you know the tech used by Nintendo, the Wii? Here, that's the same thing but with the eyes or the head.

Posted on: 2011/7/10 16:25
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Hey Mav,

I've toyed with most of the settings in HardCMP reducing the rotation values etc, I've also tried editing the .CMP in the UTF editor, going into all of the Hardpoints and minimised or zeroed the various values under the Revolute hardpoints with no success.

Sadly I think if Gibbon hasn't managed it then it's unlikely that it could be fixed in the vanilla models.

Gonna keep experimenting and see what results I get.

Freestalker.fr - very good point! I hadn't even thought about that!

Cheers
Rik

Posted on: 2011/7/10 16:37
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Actually you just reminded me about the helmets worn by gunners in certain gunships, that track head movement and swivel the turret to match, a very good point!

Posted on: 2011/7/10 16:40
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Quote:

rik_starkiller wrote:
Hey Mav,

I've toyed with most of the settings in HardCMP reducing the rotation values etc, I've also tried editing the .CMP in the UTF editor, going into all of the Hardpoints and minimised or zeroed the various values under the Revolute hardpoints with no success.

Sadly I think if Gibbon hasn't managed it then it's unlikely that it could be fixed in the vanilla models.

Gonna keep experimenting and see what results I get.
Cheers
Rik

Just a thought, have you tried removing the existing HpConnect, and putting one on the model manually? There is no HpConnect in the drop-down list, so tick the 'not from list' box, untick 'use numbering scheme' and manually type in 'HpConnect' in the entry box, like so:

Open in new window

Make sure you have the spelling correct or the game will roll over.
Don't forget to move it to its correct position.
No idea if this is going to work, like I said just a thought. But let me know if it works, I'm curious.

Posted on: 2011/7/10 16:53
"Never argue with an idiot. You will have to lower yourself to their level and they will beat you with experience"
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Hey Guys,

If you want to prevent the guns from moving, you need to alter their Rev data, which is under the Cons. You can easily do this with the new UTF Editor that can be found here: http://forge.the-starport.net/project ... ory/changes/UTFEditor.exe

That's what I've done in FW:ToW for several turrets. One turret only has been giving 10 degrees of freedom.

Let me know if you want me to go more indepth with this as I could do a tutorial quickly if needed.

Posted on: 2011/7/10 17:00
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Thanks for the kind offer, Sushi. Tutorials are always interesting. Although I'm still working on other things for our mod and won't get around to this sorta thing for a while, at some point in the future this would certainly be interesting to look into.

Posted on: 2011/7/10 17:22
"Never argue with an idiot. You will have to lower yourself to their level and they will beat you with experience"
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Hey Sushi,

Thanks for the heads up, a quick tutorial would be useful, for and I guess others. It's more the math that anything else

I'm guessing I need to lower the values under

HpMount
--> RotX
--> RotY
--> RoyZ

HpFire<XX>
--> RotX
--> RotY
--> RoZ

Is this correct?

Cheers,
Rik

Posted on: 2011/7/10 18:56
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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well another route you can take for having the look and feel of a fixed gun but still use the FL targeting of revolute weapons is to mesh gun models onto the fighter itself, then use the nomad gun model (which is just Hardpoints, no actual weapon model, and no not the one that the colony fighters mount, but the actual nomad gun cmp). this way you get the 'fixed' gun look, but still are able to target and fire the guns correctly.

Posted on: 2011/7/10 23:42
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Rik, no, that's not correct. I'll do up a video tutorial for you tomorrow.

Posted on: 2011/7/11 1:57
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Cool thanks guys, look forward to the vid.

Cheers,
Rik

Posted on: 2011/7/11 8:09
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Re: fixed guns on fighters
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Sorry, was a bit delayed today due to work. Tomorrow I'll definitely have time to do the video.

Posted on: 2011/7/12 3:21
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